In response to comments on Higher brain functions currently suspended
Do I think that socially there is an problem with the image of women the media portrays?
Yes I do.
Do I think the media is to blame for this issue?
No I don't. I think the media is partly responsible, but so are those people who buy what they are selling (the concept as much as the wares). I think there is a greater philosophical question of how much the media is creating and how much the media is giving what people want. I'm not a social anthropologist, so I don't have the answer, but I do believe that merely blaming the media is a easy answer, but is a sorely deficient one.
Do I think this can change?
Yes, I think it will change. As styles and fashions ebb and flow (much like languages do), new body images will appear, some worse some better. I think this will change so societies change naturally. I don't think this will change much because intellectually people realise it's 'not such a good thing'. People know smoking is bad and we still smoke. I feel it will change as a result of society changing naturally.
Do I think that by posting a photograph of a picture that shows a unrealistic body type I am helping make things worse?
No I don't. I'm not selling anything. I'm not trying to market anything. I'm using the picture for no purpose but to say "I found these women attractive". The fact it's on my blog is no different to me turning to a mate and pointing at the photograph and saying wow.
But surely you see how, say a women seeing that moblog could think "I don't look like that I'm ugly" and that by posting your picture you are encouraging that?
Yes I do see how a women could have that response. The same way I myself wish I looked more like Matt Damon. However I know Matt Damon is something I can't look like, and I know he is attractive. I also know that even if their is a bit of photoshopping work done on a photoshoot, I still wont look like Matt Damon. He would look good regardless. He is a good looking guy. So I am able to understand that it's ok for someone to find Matt Damon attractive. Girls all around the country have pictures of Movie and music stars taken out of their teen magazines and stuck on their walls. Being attracted to good looking people is normal
Yeah but good looking people didn't used to be photoshopped.
That's true. But they used to filmed in the right lighting and with make up, so the practise of altering the reality is not new. Photoshop has just made it possible to extend what can be done, but the concept isn't much different. Personally I cannot tell what has been photoshopped and what hasn't. I guess just about every magazine front page image has. So what must I do about it? I can either find the image 'wrong' and not like because intellectually I know it's probably fake. Unfortunately for me, I cannot change my emotional response to something always based on intellect. I still find the girls attractive. The same way I'm not bother by fake tits. Some people find the concept of anything fake adherent. I don't. Please don't presume that I have to find the same things attractive and unattractive as you do.
Well you're a pig. Not every girl can look like a movie star you know.
I do know that. And I have been attracted to many many girls who are not. Their are also many models and movie stars I don't find attractive. However these are people who are often are very attractive and I enjoy looking at attractive movie stars. If you have an issue with this, you're living on a strange planet. I don't worship the movie stars and I don't expect every girl to be one. However giving me shit because I found someone attractive is unfair, regardless of their body type. Give me as much shit as you like when I talk about someone I don't find attractive using derogatory terms, but allow me to choose who I find attractive or not.
Well how do you ever expect to get a girlfriend if you have a warped sense of what women really look like?
I don't expect anything. And the third thing (after intelligence and the ability to make me laugh) I look for in a women is that I must be attracted to her. Note, attracted to her, not that she must look like a model
But if you think women look like these airbrushed fakes then how will you ever be attracted to a normal women?
Easily. All the women I meet who I am attracted to normal women. I am attracted by many physical characteristic as well as style (dress, look etc). Some of these are conventional and some are not. Sure some of this is based on social conditioning I don't deny that. But at the end of the day I'm attracted to who I am attracted to and I'm not who I'm not. The range of women I am attracted to varies a lot more than you might think. I don't think it's fair to judge me on who I am attracted too.
Why do you keep bringing up men in this. Many have nothing to worry about?
All I am trying to highlight is that we all have social pressures. Far more men commit suicide over pressure to achieve success than women. This is not a tit for tat thing, but just saying that society places different pressure on different groups. Girls tend not to date men shorter than them. Guys are attracted to thin girls. It's all crap. Presuming I don't understand what women go through is unfair. Please don't place the worlds social ills on my shoulders, I never placed them on yours.
Sometimes things are only what they are and no more. I found a picture of two people I consider attractive, attractive. That was it. I have no more to say on this.
1. Pete
“I found a picture of two people I consider attractive, attractive.”
Funny you should say that, because I found that picture of two people whom I would normally consider to be attractive, unattractive.
Dan was right - they looked like eery wax models. Like they were wearing a flesh-coloured lycra bodysuit.
It seems like the concept of nudity titillates you more than the bodies themselves.
2. matthew
I think you may be right Pete, have you seen the type of smut Adrian used to make his mosaic? Err… not exctly pornographic, more naturistic/nudist is style…
‘Oooh! Look! Nude people! Mmmm… nude people…’
3. anna
When you say ‘in response to’, you don’t mean ‘direct response, do you?
Only, I’ve read through that Moblog comment thread three times now and I don’t see quite a lot of those questions being asked, or points being made.
Is it a more general response, then? To the world and their accusations of sexism rather than that thread in particular?
4. Adrian
No, it’s a direct response to the moblog. Not that those questions were asked explicitly, but in that those were the points I believed I as being called out on.
5. Jen
I in no way meant to attact you for finding a picture of naked women attractive — that is completely normal and understandable. However, what I find unsettling is the blind acceptance and self-proclaimed suspension of higher brain functions. Whether you will admit it or not, there is subtext to images like that, and while it’s fine if you still find them attractive, it’s not fine that you will not admit to the subtext you. I think it’s a cop-out to say that the media is only giving people what they want, and that society will change naturally. You cited smoking as an example — but even though people still do it, and want to do it, that is changing. Look at Washington State — smoking in public places is banned. New York City has banned smoking in bars. People are actively changing something (not waiting for society and trends to take their natural course) that is unhealthy and dangerous.
And I think that’s what bothers me the most: you don’t seem to realize that this is a very serious issue. I do not mean to harp on eating disorders, but they are the most efficient way to prove my point. The image presented is unhealthy and dangersous. Are you aware that eating disorders KILL? 90% of people with eating disorders are women, so it is definitely very much female-oriented. Eating disorders have the highest mortality rate of ANY mental illness (which would include depression, which implies suicide, so I don’t want to hear about more men committing suicide. How many men who committ suicide do it a little bit at a time, each and every day?). 20% of people with eating disorders die from it or complications. Anorexia’s mortality rate is 12 times higher than ALL causes of death for women 15 - 24 years old.
If you ask me, that’s scary. It’s scary that it happens right under our noses. It’s scary that we can and do look at this images of women, say woo hoo hot, and let it go at that. It’s scary that people are not willing to step up and say that something is wrong, that this is not acceptable — although it is comforting to see how many people have done just that in this debate. It’s scary that so many people are willing to suspend their higher brain functions for the sake of a sexy picture. It’s scary that people will say: men have their social pressures too. Thank you, I know — and women have those same social pressures. Finicial or career success? Sporting talent? Height? Confidence or good looks? Not a single one of those is unknown to women to the extent that body image is unknown to men. And not a single one of those is as dangerous as what can happen with the societal pressure of body image — from eating disorders.
I honestly have no problem with you finding the image attractive. That’s fine. I just don’t understand how you can truly suspend higher brain functions, how you can say that the media is only giving people what they want (which implies they are giving you what you want, so you have to take your share of responsibility). How can you ignore that the images being present today are unhealthy and potential dangerous — girls as young as seven are developing eating disorders now. 50% of girls between 11 and 13 see themselves as overweight. There is something severely wrong with that. And whether the media is merely giving people what they want or purposely perpetuating these images, it is something that we, as human beings, should recognize as wrong and try to do something to change. Suspending those higher brain functions isn’t helping anybody. Sometimes things are only what they are — and sometimes they’re a lot more, even if you don’t want them to be.
Please don’t feel like I am attacking you, because I don’t mean to. I am merely trying to make you see my perspective of the issue, and to get you to understand that there is more at stake than just enjoying a picture of naked women.
6. Adrian
Although I planned to reply to very little on this blog, as I want to avoid getting into the same shouting match as on the moblog post, I’m going to reply to this.
what I find unsettling is the blind acceptance and self-proclaimed suspension of higher brain functions When I titled it “suspend higher brain functions” all I meant was “those girls / that picture is hot”. All I was doing was picking amusing title and a funny way of saying those girls are hot, as implying I was not thinking with my head but another body part
Whether you will admit it or not, there is subtext I admitted several times that I was aware of the whole issue of female body image. What I denied was that I could see any photoshopping. I never denied that it wasn’t photoshopped, I just said I can’t see it and it may not have been there.
I think it’s a cop-out to say that the media is only giving people what they want, and that society will change naturally I’m not copping out from anything. I am merely stating how I perceive the social economics of the situation. You can disagree with my opinion on this, but I am not copping out, merely stating how I read the situation. Claiming this is a cop out is unfair.
And I think that’s what bothers me the most: you don’t seem to realize that this is a very serious issue. Please see my very first line of this blog post. I agree totally that it is a very serious issue. I disagree that my finding the picture attractive is the very serious issue. I also tried to highlight that the issue was not just black and white (nothing ever is) but I never said the issue wasn’t serious
… so I don’t want to hear about more men committing suicide. How many men who committ suicide do it a little bit at a time, each and every day? I was not saying that the women issue is less important because men have issues too. I was just highlighting that social pressures affect all of us. I pointed out several times that the pressure were different. Saying men’s social pressures are not important because dying from an eating disorder is very ugly is unfair to both genders. This isn’t about who has the worse disorder. This is about recognising that social pressure affect all of us. You’re reaction to me just pointing out that men have social pressure to is exactly the response you are negatively accusing me of having.
It’s scary that so many people are willing to suspend their higher brain functions for the sake of a sexy picture I suspend the same higher brain functions when I see a Ferrari or watch sport. As I said several times, it elicits a response from me. I find the picture sexy. I must now feel guilty for finding a picture sexy? I’m sorry, but my guilt will not change anything. I’m doing nothing wrong here, but finding a naked picture of people I find attractive, attractive.
I honestly have no problem with you finding the image attractive. I’m sorry, but that seems to be exactly what you have problem with. Lets assume the picture has been photoshopped. Lets unphotoshop the image. I would have exactly the same response (I’ve said repeatedly, I can’t tell the image has been altered). Now what is the issue. That the girls in the picture are thin? (Although Scarlett has curves and a fairly unusual look and by no means appeals to everyone, and most people find Keira too boney) That the girls are famous and the media is using them to sell magazines? If we take away the photoshopping (which was pretty much what I mean when I said I don’t care about it) because if it has been done I don’t know and can’t tell the difference, what is the problem with me finding them attractive, as far I am concerned they are attractive. I don’t tell anyone what or who they should find attractive or unattractive but it seems pretty clearly that you are calling me out because I have done so.
I just don’t understand how you can truly suspend higher brain functions As I said, by “suspend higher brain functions” all I meant was that the girls were hot, naked and on display. There is nothing more in that title than an attempt at humour.
How you can say that the media is only giving people what they want Because the media has to sell magazines or what not and people have to buy them. The best way to sell things is to give people what they want.
which implies they are giving you what you want 1) I’m not buying the magazine. 2)Naked picture of people I find attractive is very nice thank you 3)The only mens magazine I buy has semi naked pictures of men (Men’s Health) so I’m not exactly feeding the industry. I don’t buy FHM & Co because they are rubbish magazines. I would buy Playboy because it isn’t. Playboy I’m sure photoshoppes it’s images, yet the body types are curvy and far more normal. Actually barring breasts, most porn is.
How can you ignore that the images being present today are unhealthy and potential dangerous I’m not. I said several times that I agree the issue is serious. By the same respect I’m still not finding the image any less attractive. I’m not sure how you want me to turn of the bit of my brain that finds the image attractive. I am however quite capable of finding the image attractive and both acknowledging and being involved in the debate as to why the image the media projects is bad. These things can be separate.
and sometimes they’re a lot more, even if you don’t want them to be This is not about what I want and don’t want. This is merely saying that my finding the picture attractive isn’t the issue. The issue is a whole separate debate, that if you haven’t notice I agree with you on. There is nothing that is going to make me find that picture less attractive, because I simply cannot unattract meyself to something, and I don’t see how you can expect me to. I find attractive what I find attractive and you may disagree about my taste but it is my taste. You can’t tell me what I do and don’t find attractive. You don’t have to find the same things attractive, but their is simply nothing wrong with finding Keira and Scarlett attractive. And find them attractive even when the picture is just a news paper shot and not a cover shoot.
I am merely trying to make you see my perspective of the issue, and to get you to understand that there is more at stake than just enjoying a picture of naked women But you expect me not to enjoy a naked picture of women, if they women subscribe to the media image and not to yours? Yes their is more at stake, but me finding the picture attractive is not the issue. And I have never disputed the issue. What response do you expect me to have to the picture if not your own? Am I not allowed to have my own response? Am I not allowed to find the picture attractive? Am I not allowed to point out hot girls to my mates? Am I meant to block all thoughts of attractive women in the media? I never denied the greater issue, I just argued that all I did was find a picture attractive and everyone jumped on my back. I also find girls who don’t look like that attractive. I cannot be blamed for social ills for merely finding a picture attractive. Pete and Dan don’t find the picture attractive. I do. That’s all their is to it.
7. Jen
This is my last comment, because I feel like we are going around in circles.
I want to repeat one thing: I do not mean to attack you for finding the picture attractive, and I do not fault that reaction. In fact, I expect that most men would find a picture of naked women attractive. Do not expect you to unattract yourself to the image, and I do not expect you not to enjoy it.
The point I have been trying to make is that simply accepting these images, saying that they can be accepted at face value — here. Let me pull out the things you said that did bother me. You’ll notice none of them have to do with you liking the image or the image being photoshopped, because that is not my point.
I’m perfectly capable of realising that how they look in that photograph is an irrelevancy in the real world and in my personal reality. You’re over analysing something where their is nothing their. It is not irrelevant in the real world. Then you say this: no one has the right to tell me I cannot understand the social implication of the picture because I find it attractive. So .. are we over analysing something where there is nothing, or are there actually social implications? And this seems like a bit of a contradiction: Also I never said their is no subtext. However when everything is photoshopped or edited or fudged then the subtext is actually the the reality of the day. So is it reality, or is it irrelevant to reality?
the media is behaving in a way the media behaves to suit a buying public that expects the media to give them what they want. I can’t care about that either.
I care about things that affect my life. This doesn’t.
Almost 50% of Americans personally know someone with an eating disorder. Chances are, you know someone too — you just might not know they have the disorder. You can care about it, and it does affect your life, just not directly.Fashion has also reflect desire as much as desire reflected in fashion. No one is forcing women to buy these magazines. And no one is giving them a way to escape from these images, either. You can’t walk down the street in a city without seeing billboards and advertiments that perpetuate this image. It’s not just magazines.
And I feel feel for women I really do. But it’s not a gender thing. Men may have (currently) less body image issues but we have our own social pressure that are different. Do you think because I can’t change my height, that it makes it any easier to deal with? Do you think feelings of failure and inadequacy because I’m not as successful or earning as much as I perceive socially I should to be considered successful is any less emotionally troubling than not being thin enough. It’s just different. Yes, it’s just different. Regardless of the fact that so many people die from eating disorders, I’m sure the emotional difficulties associated with your height are just as important of an issue in today’s society. (I’m sorry — that was mean. I’m just trying to point out that although they are different, perhaps the consequences of one are much more drastic that the consequences of other social pressures.)
Or possibly I can divorce the greater social implications and intellectual debate from a the fact I find a picture of naked girls attractive. That’s right. Because this doesn’t affect your life, and you can’t care about a media that is giving people what they want — even if it perpetuates an impossible body image that leads to eating disorders and death. If only we could all divorce the social implications from the images.
And now I’m done with this debate. I’m sorry that you felt I was attacking your or telling you that you shouldn’t enjoy the picture. Go ahead and enjoy it — just please don’t divorce the social implications that go along with those images. Don’t be one more person who takes what they see at face value and doesn’t care how it affects the rest of society.
8. Adrian
I agree we are going round in circles. But I also think I am being a bit misinterpreted in some of my answers so I’ll try to see if I can clarify a bit on some of them, and respond a bit to some others.
… how they look in that photograph is an irrelevancy in the real world … Actually I am agreeing with you here. What I mean by “irrelevancy in the real world” is that women don’t look like the media image in the real world, and that in the real world the reality is somewhat different. Poor choice of wording, perhaps, but I was actually making the exact opposite point.
… and in my personal reality. What I am saying here is that my personal reality means I deal with real women, not cover photos and not models. How famous people look on magazine covers is not going to change my personal reality nor how I deal with women. The same way looking at Ferraris is not going have any impact on my personal reality.
“However when everything is photoshopped or edited or fudged then the subtext is actually the the reality of the day.” So is it reality, or is it irrelevant to reality? I was being philosophical. I was saying if everything is photoshopped, then reality actually shifts as the baseline is that all images are photoshopped. It perhaps was a point badly made, but it is (in my mind) and interesting philosophical debate over what really defines reality when reality is perception and perception is not fixed. This is a merely a philosophical musing.
You can care about it, and it does affect your life, just not directly. Whilst that is entirely true, I have my own personal issues that are directly affecting my life to deal with. I’m sorry the world has eating disorders but I don’t. I do however have an array of my own issues to deal with that take priority for me. Those issues are not better nor worse nor anything but my issues.
You can’t walk down the street in a city without seeing billboards and advertiments that perpetuate this image. It’s not just magazines. True, but it still remains the case that people buy more of things presented with an ‘unrealisitc’ ideal as an image. The minute the economics change so will the image, but as long as people buy, the existing image will be peddled.
I’m sure the emotional difficulties associated with your height are just as important of an issue in today’s society. I’m sorry — that was mean. I’m just trying to point out that although they are different, perhaps the consequences of one are much more drastic that the consequences of other social pressures. So is it all about numbers of deaths then? Then perhaps AIDS, Poverty & Cancer are all way more important. Or should we look at alcoholisms too as an effect of social pressures? How about looking around the world where the social pressure on both men and women are different and aren’t always about body image? I’m not prepared to play a numbers game to see who has the more important issues. All I am saying is that social issues are universal. It’s not the best way to co-op support for you issue when someone says “Yeah I understand how you feel, I have social pressures to” by responding with “But your social pressures are less important”. If I said that about women you would all tear into me. This is not about who has the worse social pressure or who has the worst consequences as we can both drum up 1000 different arguments on this which makes trivialises the issue. It’s about recognising people problems and accepting that their is one. Someone who dies from an eating disorder is no less dead than someone who shoots himself for failing to succeed.
Because this doesn’t affect your life, and you can’t care about a media that is giving people what they want I never said I don’t care, I said I can separate an intellectual debate from an attraction. Don’t twist my words.
Don’t be one more person who takes what they see at face value If we all took what we saw at face value we wouldn’t have this problem. It’s our perception that is the issue. If everyone dismissed the photo as just a photo no one would have any body image issues.
.. and doesn’t care how it affects the rest of society. I could point out all the times I said I do care. Like my first line of this post.
9. Destructor
I think the reason you keep going around in circles is you make concessions to the point and then immediately, one sentence later, make a statement that is in direct opposition to the concession. (ie: “I care. Not my problem.”)
You concede that there is a problem. You concede that the problem is a result of the interaction between the media and the consumers of media. Well, you are a consumer and via this blog you are part of the media (you are distributing and glorifying the image in question). So how can you then, having conceded the first two points, deny any and all responsibility with a simple “I’m not to blame.” Because in part, you are.
And I appreciate your point about this problems being solved in small evolutionary bites, I really do. But ALL positive change in human history has come about because of the concerted actions of individuals. Racism, sexism, homophobia, every advance we’ve made on those issues over the past century has come about because individuals said: “I’m not going to stand for this anymore.” And saying: “Not my problem, I’ve got my own concerns. Let me ogle the nice ladies.” IS a cop-out- whether you agree or not, it is a cop-out. If there is to be an evolution in our way of thinking about how women should appear, if there is to be a solution to the culture of thinspiration (and I hope I don’t have to say this again: pointing out there are other problems in the world is NOT AN ANSWER to an existing problem), it will come about in spite of people who shrug their shoulders and say “Well that’s the way things are. Deal with it.”
Saying that you care doesn’t actually prove anything. Your actions suggest you don’t care enough to actually stop glorifying the images that are creating the problem- and that is part of the problem. So the title of this post is wrong. In a tiny, tiny, tiny (absolutely miniscule) way, you really are partially to blame- and so is everyone else who won’t say ‘enough’. And that’s why the evolution is getting worse, not better.
10. Adrian
So what you want is me to only post images that subscribe to your view of what a normal body type is? Or what your view of what should be defined as attractive.
Because my view is wrong. Regardless of the fact my view has posted 1 picture from the media and countless pictures that are not media related.
The only acceptable solution I can see you propose is me to post the picture from Vanity Fair with the headline of “This is wrong, I do not find pictures of the media ideal of women attractive”. Except that, that would be a lie. Fortunately for me, I don’t only find the media ideal of women attractive but like a broad spectrum.
/side. I never pointed out other problems in the world as an answer, but as a way of showing I understood the problem. Pointing out parallels in other areas is an acceptable way of highlighting a point. I made several efforts to say the issues were different.
11. Destructor
So what you want is me to only post images that subscribe to your view of what a normal body type is?
When did my views on what is or is not attractive become relevant to this discussion? I could be a furry for all the bearing it has on the issue. You are altering the parameters of this conversation because you are (either conciously or unconciously, I can’t tell) unable to answer the points directed towards you. I think women should not have to live in an environment saturated with impossible (in this case literally impossible since even the models in question can’t achieve it) images of how they should look- and if you’d like to stop contributing to that phenom, that’d be just grand.
The only acceptable solution I can see you propose is me to post the picture from Vanity Fair with the headline of “This is wrong, I do not find pictures of the media ideal of women attractive”.
Or to have never perpetuated it at all- or to cease actively (agressively, even) defending a culture you already concede causes extreme, even fatal, disorders.
Why do you keep bringing it back to the fact that you “can’t help” but find them attractive? Why not bring it back to the people with eating disorders? They “can’t help” but feel that they are fat and ugly. Where did this feeling come from? Why don’t they just close their eyes and let men have our fun?
Fortunately for me, I don’t only find the media ideal of women attractive but like a broad spectrum.
It is very fortunte for you, but again absolutely not what people keep ‘calling you on’.
I never pointed out other problems in the world as an answer, but as a way of showing I understood the problem.
Quote: “I have my own personal issues that are directly affecting my life to deal with. I’m sorry the world has eating disorders but I don’t. I do however have an array of my own issues to deal with that take priority for me.”
No-one’s asking for you to single-handedly solve the world’s problems. But it’ll never get better unless people, individuals, we, start realizing what generates it and start changing our attitudes- and if we refuse to even accept that our attitude is a contributing factor, that’s not exactly a great start, is it?
12. Adrian
No one is suggesting a solution either, except that I shouldn’t post the picture.
So it’s ok for me to find the women attractive, just not to mention it. To anyone.
Censorship based on your rules then.
And if that’s not the case, please tell me explicitly how you would like me to behave that is deemed acceptable. Then explain to me how this is not censorship, or you not telling my that my behaviour isn’t being decided by your world view.
Finally please don’t take two different quotes from me and link them out of context to twist my words.
I never pointed out other problems in the world as an answer, but as a way of showing I understood the problem. Was about highlighting that men have social problems too, some of these does allow men to understand what women go through.
“I have my own personal issues that are directly affecting my life to deal with. I’m sorry the world has eating disorders but I don’t. I do however have an array of my own issues to deal with that take priority for me.” Was explain about how this doesn’t affect my life directly and I have my own problems I am dealing with.
Joining these two sentences together twists my words into something I didn’t say.
13. Adrian
That said I am not defending or explain myself any more.
I have made my position as clear as I can.
Those who still believe my actions are bad and harmful, are entitled to that opinion.
I however will continue belie I am still a nice guy. I’m entitled to that opinion, even if I do like images of women you don’t.
14. Destructor
Joining these two sentences together twists my words into something I didn’t say.
Just pointing out that you seem to be able hold the concepts of “I care.” and “Not my problem.” simultaneously in your head, when one actually overwrites the other.
And if that’s not the case, please tell me explicitly how you would like me to behave that is deemed acceptable. Then explain to me how this is not censorship, or you not telling my that my behaviour isn’t being decided by your world view.
You know that is a valid point and I’m going to concede that. I don’t want to tell you what to do. I don’t want some kind of force governing the media telling them that they can’t post artifical images of women- would that mean I can’t buy my gaming magazine with Lara Croft on the cover?
So I guess there is no solution. Women can keep feeling crap about themselves, you can keep ogling over the images that make them feel crap about themselves (and dealing with your own, highly important I’m sure, issues of height and uhm, status), and the world can continue much as it is. You’re not to blame. There are no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ worldviews and you can’t control your behaivour even if there were. Any kind of curb, even if voluntary, on behaivour that contributes to negative disorders, is censorship and therefore evil. Great stuff.
15. Adrian
You know, belliteling other peoples issues is always a real effective way of getting them to support your viewpoint.
16. Destructor
Well then I’m sure anyone with experience of an eating disorder or with friends/relatives afflicted by eating disorders will just eat your worldview right up.
17. Adrian
I never belittled anyone.
18. Destructor
Yeah- that’s what I’m saying. That you will get support for your ‘not my problem’ perspective because you’ve repeatedly stated how much you care about the problem many young women have with body image.
19. Adrian
I fully acknowledged that I agree it is a problem several times. I’ve had enough of this.
/end
20. Pete
I vote that we lighten the mood a little. This video of Scarlett J is unphotoshopped, I believe.
21. annie
You get the best debates on sevitz.com
22. Princess of Darkness
Basically, Adrian is a good guy so cut him some slack. The End.
23. Tom
I would like to take issue with the fact that you say “I’m not to blame.”
You’re a bloke. You’re always going to be blamed and you’re always going to be in the wrong.
Live with it.
24. Jack
sigh
Such a shame.
25. razorhead
may we all continue to live in a liberal democracy where people are free to gawp at other people.
But seriously, Matt Damon?
26. Adrian
Yeah, I think he’s a pretty good looking chap.
27. Tom
Coming from someone who thinks that Scarlett and Kiera are hot, this does not surprise me.
28. matthew
Every time anyone mentions Matt Damon, I think of Team America. And crack up laughing.
“Matt DAAAMON”.
29. emchi
speaking of images being altered digitally, Kiera was recently moaning that the makeup crew didn’t have enough time to create her heaving clevage on the latest Pirates films. It turns out they used a lot of makeup to create a more curved effect on the first Pirates film, as it meant saving cost on enhancing the film in post production.
I think she’s a bit skinny and could probably do with a bite to eat, but I’d kill for abs like hers, and I don’t doubt they didn’t get there without a great deal of work.
It’s quite easy to spot the pics that have been altered digitally and those that haven’t if you look quite closely. I’d love someone to alter photos of me so I could look as good as they do, however I don’t think anyone has the time nor the money to achieve these things.
It’s supply and demand, if there wasn’t the supply there wouldn’t be the demand, and if there wasn’t the demand there wouldn’t be the supply. Having got the Vanity Fair issue in question, I think some of the photos are simply stunning, Annie Lebowitz being one of my favourite photographers, I don’t think she glamourises people for the sake of it, she just happens to shot amazing photographs.
30. ella
hugh jackman as wolverine/logan in x-men/x-men2 during a fight scene. now that is hot.
31. Danzor
Thread resurrection! Kiera agrees with me:
http://www.feministing.com/archives/009980.html
32. Marc
Danzor should we be worried that you are trolling a site for young women to speak on their own behalf on issues that affect their lives and futures.